"I interfere wherever things go badly"

Mikhail Gutseriev talks about seven years of business revival, praises the Central Bank and Elvira Nabiullina and cites his own poems.
"I lost everything three times and started again. I will start now in the fourth, "Mikhail Gutseriev said in an interview with Vedomosti seven years ago, after returning from London, where he left because of criminal prosecution in Russia. Since then, he has returned Russneft's assets and led the company to an IPO, engaged in retail - bought "Eldorado" and "M. Video", became one of the largest owners of commercial real estate and a key player in the housing market. His Binbank is among the top 15 largest lending institutions by asset size. All these assets will soon enter the industrial and financial group "Safmar" with a turnover of over 1 trillion rubles.

Gutseriev on the 20th place in the list of 200 richest businessmen of Russia according to the Forbes version of 2017 with the state of $ 6.3 billion.

On the day of the interview at the office of RussNeft at Pyatnitskaya, the journalists of Vedomosti faced Philip Kirkorov - pop stars willingly perform songs on Gutseriev's poetry.

The entrepreneur spoke about the formation of the group "Safmar", which unites various assets of the Gutseriev family, the state of business in each industry and what will develop first.

Safmar and oil

- What is the group "Safmar", how is it managed, who is responsible for what in your family?

- Now she is not yet governed. We only create it. Now we finish the office on Taganka, there will be my office, the offices of my deputies.

The very structure of management is a strategy. Tactics is an operational management in the field, to which we have no direct relationship, only through the boards of directors. We build cooperation with all financial, commercial and other structures, and we will also conduct cadres, control and legal support. That is, how would we create our ministry in the same way as large world holdings. The work is underway, and by the end of the year we will have a tough vertical management. There will be general reporting, the turnover of the group will be just over 1 trillion rubles. I do not mean finance, but trade and production turnover. My son is in charge of oil refining, I supervise oil, everything related to real estate is supervised by younger brother, retail and coal - Bilan Uzhahov, our very good manager Eriskhan Kurazov will oversee the warehouse business. Managers work, but the process is controlled through the boards of directors.

- You did not mention who is in charge of the financial business. Why Mikail Shishkhanov was remote or distanced from the management of the financial business? Is this due to different views on the business or, perhaps, there were claims to Shishkhanov's team? What did happen after all?

- Is he fired ?! No, he is not fired, he just moved to another job and oversees the financial business in "Safmar". 23 years can be managed in one place? Why do not you ask why I left the presidency of Russneft and became chairman of the council? Because we are tired of each other, I put a young, more energetic Eugene Tolochka. In "Neftis" he put Andrei Zarubin. Shishkhanov spent 23 years in Binbank, now he is 45. Maybe enough? Maybe put a younger one, another? Time has changed. Shishkhanov went to the promotion. Now he oversees various issues, including those related to finance.

Business of Gutserievs

149 billion rubles. Revenues brought in 2016 oil and gas, coal and processing assets of the group "Safmar"
1.2 trillion rubles. Amounted to January 2016, the value of bank assets, united in the group of Binbank
40.3 billion rubles. Cost by April 2017, the financial assets of "Safmar" managed by "Safmar financial investments"
346 billion rubles. Revenues were received in 2016, the network "M. Video" and "Eldorado" (a total of 828 stores)
563,300 sq. M. M of housing and social and cultural facilities introduced in 2016, "Inteko" and "Patriot" - 378,000 and 185,300 square meters. M respectively
43 business and shopping centers are managed by "Corporation AND", office and retail space is in the amount of 1.1 million square meters. M
1.8 million square meters. M constitute a warehouse area class A under the management of MLP (Multinational Logistic Partnership)
2286 numbers in the Russian hotels belonging to the group "Safmar", another 532 - in the CIS countries

- Do we understand correctly that when you decide to head the boards of directors, do you foresee certain risks for the business? After all, there are sanctions, low oil prices, there is an outflow of foreign capital - the latter, for example, is associated with the claim of Rosneft to AFK Sistema.

- The story with AFK Sistema does not concern me, and it has nothing to do with the crisis situation. They will understand, it's just a legal battle. The exchange rate of the ruble to the dollar was 30, then it became 60. Obviously, the purchasing power has fallen, the market is squeezing: sales of housing, apartments, clothes, cars, etc. And it is obvious that if you are the captain of the ship and two icebergs are on you You get up to the wheel, and you will not be sitting in the cabin. I became the chairman of the board of directors of all the main structures, because I have experience.

- You said that the company will have accountability. Will this be public information?

- Required. When we create "Safmar", we will have a general accountability, everyone will see who and what earns. Over the past 15 years, there has not been a year that we earned less than $ 1 billion, except for the 2008-2009 crisis.

- What will you invest in? How many of them are borrowed?

- We invest in everything that can yield income over 15%: real estate, construction, oil, gas, etc. In Russia, now there is no business with a return of more than 20%. At the same time there should be 70% of credit funds, 30% of its own. If you do not give 30% of yours, then you do not have an economy in a falling market at the rates that are now there. You will never raise an enterprise. You need then either to hire cheap labor - guest workers, or not to pay taxes.

- What direction for the group "Safmar" is the flagship?

- Oil. These are Russneft, Neftis, Forteinvest. Now we have bought the company "Sladkovsko-Zarechnoe" in the Orenburg region, reserves of 100 million tons. For three months we produce 300,000 tons, next year we will produce 1 million tons. We bought Orenburg assets "GeoProgress", "Preobrazhenskneft". We are actively looking at gas, oil and abroad.

- What are the interests abroad?

- We are actively working in Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan. Why should we go to Africa, Brazil, when there are Russian-speaking countries Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan? The same oil, the same Russian-speaking people. In Belarus, we are also very active.

- Do you think Russia has prospects for the development of the oil business? After all, now there is an enlargement of the industry, the state has no large oil fields, oil refining is not in the best condition.

- Why ?! We have 1 billion tons of reserves. Of the 14 billion tons of reserves in Russia, we own one billion officially.

- In the future, will you buy new production licenses?

- No, why, when we have 1 billion tons of reserves - we need to develop. We have already bought everything you can buy. Now we will develop our deposits. Everything will depend on demand. The demand will be - we will grow. Now we keep production because of the agreement with OPEC.

- In November last year, IPO Russneft. Who bought the company's shares?

- Different people bought. Why do you think I bought it myself? What is this dying business? How is Russneft worse than Lukoil or Surgutneftegaz? Only they are big - I am less. We will not name the names, but only five or six composers, my acquaintances, bought the shares. Someone at $ 50,000, someone at $ 100,000. Marketing within the IPO Russneft was among a wide range of institutional and private investors. Following the IPO of Russneft, the shareholders were banks, professional investment funds and hedge funds, large financial and industrial holdings. This is not only investors from Russia, but also from Europe and Asia.

Particularly pleased with the confidence of private investors - we have them more than 2000 people. As for specific names, we respect the interests of our investors and do not disclose them. If investors deem it necessary to disclose their participation, they will do so in accordance with their internal procedures or the requirements of the law.

- How much do you estimate the value of your entire group?

"It's worth nothing today." It costs exactly as much as it will give. And today few people buy.

Real estate no longer needed

- If we talk about real estate, do you agree with the assessment of your assets by Forbes magazine?

- That's funny. Why discuss it? Let's talk about something else. How can we assess assets today? They cost as much as they are willing to pay for. And now nothing is impossible to sell. Prices fell by half. This building [Russneft] I built in 2000 for $ 30 million. Of course, it twice already paid for itself, and I will not sell it. But for it is unlikely to give more than $ 30-40 million.

Mikhail Gutseriev

He was born in 1958 in Tselinograd of the Kazakh SSR. He graduated from the Technological Institute in Dzhambul, the Russian State University of Oil and Gas. Gubkin, Financial Academy under the Government of the Russian Federation, St. Petersburg Law University. Doctor of Economic Sciences
1992 created the industrial and financial company BIN (Bank for Investment and Innovation)
1995 Vice-Speaker of the State Duma
2002 created Russneft, became its president, in 2007, sold the company and went to London, returning in 2010, again headed it
2016 Chairman of the Board of Directors of the group "Safmar"

Or I wanted to sell Holiday Inn hotels for $ 110 million, although they used to cost $ 200 million. But I gave AFK Sistema only $ 75 million. I refused. Now they are withdrawn from sale.

"Why were they even sold?"

- With this money I wanted to build a 5-star luxury hotel on Tverskaya.

- That is now an unfortunate time for the sale of assets?

- Of course, now it is more profitable to buy, if there is cheap money. But they have none at this instability of the exchange rate. Five years ago, at a dollar value of 30 rubles. It was possible to attract 6%. And now even at such a rate there is no point in borrowing. And in rubles at 15% and even more so. The economy does not work, it barely breathes.

- The group "Safmar" is one of the few companies that operates in all segments of real estate. Which one is the priority for you now?

- In conditions of the crisis, Class A warehouses work best. They are most easily managed and most profitable. But personally I like the most commercial real estate, provided that it has an entertaining function. I think that stores in one form or another will die. We see this on our assets in retail, so we are dramatically increasing sales via the Internet. So the future is behind shopping and entertainment centers, especially in such big cities as Moscow. And I personally will invest money in this segment. In particular, we plan to build Universal Studios in the new Moscow. Now we are negotiating and, probably, in the summer of next year we will start to design.

- Why did not they build on the Warsaw highway?

- Because on the territory of "A101" you need to create a point of attraction, organize workplaces. On the Warsaw Highway there is no sense. And the new Moscow is a good place.

- Have the project parameters been changed?

- No. All the same. And on the Warsaw highway we plan to build 500,000 square meters. M of housing.

- Many believe that now it is more profitable to invest in housing.

- Acquisition of housing is not a priority for people. For men or even for young people, food and car are more important. I once worked as a loader, I did not have enough money, I borrowed till payday. When I bought old Zhiguli, then every 100 km for 4-5 times I ran the wheels, because I constantly lowered the tires, but there was no money for a new one. Then for me the car was more important than the apartment.

Of course, we also have companies for housing construction: Inteko, A101 Development, and Mospromstroy. By the way, quite an interesting trend. According to the projects of "A101 development" and problem assets, we see that now whole floors are bought by residents of various Russian republics. For example, four or five families from the Caucasus folded and bought from us 5000 square meters. M on w. Enthusiasts. Will do a shoe factory. Two more MDM Bank buildings were bought by four or five people in a fold for their names. Will put them in order. So now the most active population is where there is more childbearing, passionarity, where there is family support and clan in the good sense of the word.

- Hotel "Moscow" was, probably, your only asset in real estate, which you sold. Why?

- We had 49% there, that is, there was no control, and we work where we control the business. [Suleiman] Kerimov suggested that we buy his stake, and we were on the verge of a deal with him three times, but the further the negotiations went on, the more the market fell, and the terms of the deal were less profitable each time.

- And do you plan to buy hotels?

- With such development of the infrastructure that exists in the city, it becomes increasingly difficult to work in this segment. I barely got an opportunity to put five or six cars near the National Hotel. I personally went to the mayor, he gave good. But still build, it's hard to drive in the city. Here we have a hotel in Astana. Everything is fine there: it's easy to drive up to it, it's easy to build something. The same situation is in Minsk. Everything works there. And here not. Here we want to build a hotel on Tverskaya. Immediately need parking, ie, you have to go underground, and this will immediately lead to an increase in the cost of the project. Construction, as a rule, takes two years. And you start to build a two-tier garage - you need to get permits from various services and departments. As a result, the terms are extended. I somehow invited my friend a foreigner to visit and paid him a suite for three days in Four Seasons. Usually I do not consider money for such things, but here for the first time in my life, when I was given an account for $ 27,000 for three days, I realized that they were insane. That's because of this hotel and are half-empty.

- "Lux" will be managed by Hilton?

- We are negotiating with different operators. With Hilton including, this operator we already have in the hotel "Leningradskaya".

- Why did not the deal on buying "Voentorg" and Novinsky passage take place?

- Because of the greed of the sellers (VEB and Dmitry Rybolovlev - Vedomosti). There is the same situation as the hotel "Moscow". The market in 2014-2015. Was so unstable that, for example, when we started to agree at the beginning of the month, we were ready to pay one sum, by the end of the month the price had already fallen. The exchange rate went up, and the market fell. In the end, and did not buy.

- And yet I want to understand your strategy in real estate. Will you continue to grow your portfolio?

- How much can you build something? Where to put it? Here is just one property of "Mospromstroy" - 1 million sq. M. M. And this is only one company that is engaged in construction. There are 40 hostels, which is not there. Therefore, the strategy is very simple - to sell everything that is illiquid, and leave the tidbits.

"And in warehouses?"

- We have there 2 million square meters. We have enough. Moreover, when the market recovers, maybe something will be sold. The question is the price.

- And Sberbank continues to remain a shareholder of Inteko?

- Yes. There 7.5%.

- Do you plan to buy their share?

- What for? This is prestigious when you have a large bank in your shareholders.

- Do you regret that you bought "A101"? Yet now the demand for housing in the suburbs and the new Moscow is much worse than in Moscow.

- When we bought, there was one story. Now the situation is deteriorating, purchasing power is falling and people are no longer buying apartments with such frenzy as before. These are risks, we live with them.

- In connection with the situation with the bank "Yugra", are there any plans for the purchase of the Four Seasons hotel?

- No. You can not buy in such a market. You do not know what will happen tomorrow.

- Inteco has the Patriot brand ...

- Works very well in Rostov-on-Don, St. Petersburg. He builds apartments, sells and services loans.

Everything is fine with loans

Sberbank is considered the largest creditor of your family's business, they call different numbers - from $ 5 billion to $ 10 billion. According to our information, there is a certain schedule for reducing the debt. For what period is it calculated, from what level to what level, are there any special conditions, security?

- We continuously fulfill all credit obligations. In the history of our family (since you call your family, I still do not like it: not the family works - there are hundreds of thousands of people working, Russian and non-Russian) for all my life there has not been a day so far that I do not pay interest and body.

There are loan agreements. According to these contracts is paid. I'm also a lending business, why do not they say so? With almost $ 5 billion I personally invested in business, this is real money. Now Orsk refinery is being modernized: 30% we invest, 70% is invested by the bank. Of $ 1.2 billion $ 360 million we invested, $ 700 million was invested by the bank. The bank has the primary right to receive its interest and the body. Each year, due to payment of interest from us, various banks receive up to $ 500 million. RussNeft has a debt to VTB, the credit load is $ 1.26 billion. Neftis has Sberbank, which is $ 2.8 billion.

This year, Neftis's EBITDA is planned at 36 billion rubles, Russneft has 25 billion rubles. Why be afraid of companies with an EBITDA of $ 1 billion? If oil suddenly falls to $ 20 - the rate will be 120 rubles. And if the rate becomes 120 - for us oil again is $ 51 per barrel, because we are exporters.

- After all, what is the total amount of financing from Sberbank?

- $ 2.8 billion.

- It's all?

- Yes. And what else is there? There are warehouses and real estate. But there are not large sums.

- That is, even $ 5 billion is not? Less?

- Yes.

- What does the schedule suggest?

- There is no schedule. A graph is when you are bankrupt. How can there be a schedule for an oil company that earns $ 1 billion a year? Under loan agreements, we pay our obligations, we work.

- What is the basic security for obligations to Sberbank?

- Shares. What can be more?

- Personal guarantees and guarantees, for example.

- Yes, somewhere there is, somewhere not.

- After the crisis of 2008, banks demanded personal guarantees from the owners and managers of the lent business. Do you or your family have personal guarantees to Sberbank or other creditor banks?

- No. Because all our assets do not work in debt, they just work.

Banking and banking

- Do you interfere in the financial business, in management?

"I interfere wherever I think is necessary," if I see what needs to be corrected. If a complaint comes to me that the department of my company did not provide information in time, I go down and say: "Why are you putting me in an uncomfortable position before people?" I interfere wherever things go badly.

- Does your view of the development of the banking business coincide with Shishkhanov? Or in the light of team renewal, can you expect any changes in the development of the business and its directions?

"I do not understand what view Shishkhanov and I might have." What views do you have with a minor and a nephew? You can listen to it, discuss it and choose the right solution. We are reasonable people. One 46, another 59 years. We answer to the depositors. The conversation is about money, about the financial system of Russia. What differences can there be? We are very close people, partners, we communicate every day. I do not have any disagreements with anyone at all, because I am guided only by common sense.

- In your opinion, how justified was the strategy of buying up financial assets, given how dramatically and unexpectedly the regulation and rules change in the financial markets?

- There are risks in any business. Financial assets were not bought - it was sanation. These are different things. Nothing good is sold. It was a sanation. "Growth Bank", "MDM Bank" and five other banks were not in the best condition. All this was done with permission and with the full support of the Bank of Russia. All this was happening and is going on under their control. A representative of the Central Bank is present on each board of directors. Over the past three or four years, how many licenses have been withdrawn, how many banks are sanitized? We are in a common process. We did everything and will do everything the regulator says, to which we practically submit. I think that today the best team and [Elvira] Nabiullina in the Central Bank are, perhaps, the best chairman of the Central Bank, both as a professional and as a person.

- So you do not consider the actions of the Central Bank too harsh? Are you generally supportive of radical measures or a more compromise, balanced and unhurried approach in bringing order to the banking market?

- I think, "radically" - this is when they put them in jail, when they cut off their legs. And if you owned a bank, where you have depositors and other people's money, and the state insures deposits, I do not see anything radical about this. I think this, on the contrary, is for the benefit of both shareholders and the state. If the Central Bank takes any action - he will measure a hundred times and knows what he is doing. Until that time, I did not know about the role of the Central Bank, only in the last three months I learned when I became chairman of the bank's board of directors. He worked in the oil industry, real estate, there was no strict regulation. There are no problems: you earn $ 500 million a year, half of it is spent, the rest is paid to banks. But once you went into this system [in the banking sphere], then you should know that the Central Bank will monitor and control you, because the Central Bank is a regulator overseen from the state so that the interests of all depositors and all other financial institutions that are respected With you tied. Therefore, everything that the Central Bank is doing, it does right. Tomorrow [the license] can be taken from us, and from any other bank. So they see it that way.

- In your opinion, is the order in the banking market already set or is it still far away?

- I think that this process is continuous, it must be constant. The CB's hand must always be on the pulse. If you are an honest man, you do not need to be afraid when you are checked. Do not be afraid of the Central Bank. It is necessary, on the contrary, to go to them, listen, consult. You just need to be guided by common sense and the rules of the bank. All that is necessary, it is necessary to carry out, and then there will be no problems with the Central Bank, or with tax and other authorities. When you start to cheat, to muddle, distort, deceive, do wrong reporting, hide your problems, etc. - then the problems begin with the relationship with the Central Bank, etc. We need to be open, honest - no matter how paradoxical it may sound, childishly, But this is the reality in which we live.

- Even if openness and honesty will go against business?

- I have never seen never openness and honesty lost a long time. I saw that they are short-handed, but they always win decency, honesty, position, principles, when people are guided by truth and common sense. For a short time you can lose and be slandered, you can suffer financially. But everything will be sorted out and everyone will understand. They will say: yes, it was a wrong decision, we need to correct the mistake. A vivid example is my criminal case, my departure from the country. Three years later, all criminal cases were closed. I wrote a letter, apologized, I began to live and work. Because everything I did, I did honestly: I paid taxes, I fulfilled all [obligations]. Yes, there were mistakes, maybe. But they were not financial, no $ 800 million tax evasion was not, it was all invented.

- How do you assess your May meeting with the first deputy chairman of the Central Bank Dmitry Tulin, which discussed, among other things, the results of inspections of the Central Bank? Any wishes, claims to Binbank expressed?

- I never communicated with Tulin and personally I do not know him. I met with the head of the Central Bank, Tulin was there, and [Vasily] Pozdyshev, deputy chairman of the Central Bank, sat all the heads of the bank. We met and discussed current affairs. I did not meet one-on-one with anyone, the meetings were collegial, if there were two or three of my deputies.

- Why does your company Hanberg Finance, which is not a controlling shareholder of Binbank, applied to the FAS for permission to acquire rights that allow determining the conditions for carrying out the bank's activities? Is there a result?

"This is a general reorganization of the ownership structure that takes place throughout our group. The controlling stake in Binbank will belong to me. We expect the FAS response within a month.

- What do you intend to do with the "Growth of the Bank"? How are you going to expand this story, to which rating agencies refer as the main risk?

- There is a sanitation. Five managing companies are created, by sectors all problems are broken, positions are developed. Monthly receive 1 billion rubles. From the sale of illiquid and other assets. We are putting industrial enterprises in order, somewhere we are financing, changing managers, somewhere we take control over ourselves, we put people somewhere.

- I do not know how the regulator, but the rating agencies are concerned about the situation when half of Binbank's assets (in fact, it's deposits) is invested in the sanitized "Growth Bank". Moreover, the "Growth of the Bank" about 90% of the obligations - interbank loans received from Binbank.

"But it's the same bank." The shareholders of "Growth Bank" and Binbank are the same people. With regard to the rehabilitation of Bank Growth, we are in constant communication with the Central Bank, act according to the plan, any issues are resolved in the working order. In 2014, "Growth Bank" ceased to accept deposits from the public - since that time the main sources of its funding in accordance with the plan for financial recovery were the shareholder's funds, deposits from DIA and interbank loans provided by Binbank. Please note that Binbank provides "Growth to the Bank" loans on market terms. Accordingly, Binbank receives interest from it. In addition, we have a specific plan to reduce the debt and restore the financial state of "Growth of the Bank" in the future until 2025 (until this year, initially, and was supposed to be rehabilitated). Under this plan, the assets of "Growth Bank" will decrease in such a way that by the end of 2025 their size will become insignificant and the capital deficit will be fully covered by generated revenues and restoring reserves during the period of financial recovery. After that, "Growth Bank" is planned to be attached to Binbank.

- Where does Grow Bank place funds? In its assets the largest item is debt securities, who is the issuer?

- Unfortunately, we can not disclose the names of issuers. "Growth Bank" sends funds to lending to corporate borrowers and the acquisition of instruments with a fixed yield. The main goal is to implement the financial recovery plan and maintain a positive marginality of transactions. This is the main criterion in the formation of the loan portfolio. More detailed information is provided in the IFRS financial statements.

- The second large item in the assets is corporate loans, most of all (almost 40%) was issued to companies working in real estate, construction, and (about 20%) in financial intermediation. Who is credited with Growth Bank?

"I can not give you a loan portfolio." The bank credits the industry.

- Can you name the largest borrowers?

- All. Call any - all.

"But, according to international accounts, half of loans given to customers are related to transactions with related parties.

- It is good that there are related, there is someone to ask. It's bad when the party is unconnected, some little-known people are behind this company and there's no one to ask. Related parties appeared after the adoption of the law "On Controlled Foreign Companies". All opened and we opened. Business has become civilized. We gradually become a developed country. Another thing is that now it is wrong to give loans to related parties.

- Perhaps because we have a lot of high-profile stories, when the loans were on structures related to the owners who were hiding abroad after the collapse of the bank.

- We had a lot of loans, issued on unrelated parties, when the owners ran away. It depends on the person - right or wrong it, people are different. If you are an honest person, you do not need to hide anything. There are people who take out a loan and do not return it, there are people who take a loan from themselves in the bank and also do not return it.

The connectedness of the parties is not always necessarily bad or good. Everything depends on people in particular.

Pension funds

- Do you negotiate with VTB on the merger of the pension business (APF "VTB Pension Fund" and APF "Safmar")?

- No, we do not.

- In what business projects are the families invested by your pension funds - Safmar, Doverie, etc.?

- Pension funds of the group "Safmar" invest money not according to the principle of family business projects. There are quite strict requirements of the regulator to the quality of assets, in which it is possible to invest pension savings, there are limits on one asset, and there is a criterion - the profitability of investing. Of these principles, the funds of "Safmar" come from when they make investment decisions. And "business projects of the family," as you call it, are valued by the funds of the group "Safmar" along with other market assets.

The funds adhere to a conservative investment strategy aimed at preserving capital. In 2016, investment of pension savings and placement of pension reserve funds was carried out through five management companies. The selected management companies occupy leading positions in the market of trust management of pension funds, and are characterized by a high level of organization of the investment process, which allows to minimize various types of financial and operational risks.

- The financial market is consolidating, consolidating pension funds. What are you going to do about it if you're going to?

- We have already united four funds - the European pension fund, NPF Education and Science, RegionFund and Raiffeisen. The new fund "Safmar" was obtained, which became one of the five largest NPFs in the country. And we went further: the first in the Russian market made the pension fund public. At the end of last year, Safmar Financial Investments holding (PJSC Europlan - Vedomosti), which includes the Safmar pension fund, placed shares on the Moscow Stock Exchange. Since June, the shares have been included in the main stock market indices [MICEX and RTS]. And as you understand, a public company is a completely different level of transparency, information disclosure, and management quality. Why do I emphasize this fact? Because for a pension market, a public company is a completely new level. When we visited this market, pension funds did not even disclose their beneficiaries.

We have done a great job, and for us now the priority is organic growth, growth due to the fact that customers choose us for our results and our service. At present, we are not involved in negotiations on the acquisition of any funds.

Retail and public catering

- Why were you interested in buying M.video, Eldorado?

- Because I think that we will earn a lot of money on this. Everything I do is right. Therefore, over 20 years, he created one of the largest industrial groups in the country, coming from a small city to Moscow. If the error is, then it's my fault.

- When do you plan to complete the integration of M.video, Eldorado and Technosila?

- First, Technosila will be merged with Eldorado, then this structure will join M.video.

- Last week you sold about 25% of "M. Video". At the same time, the shares were actively bought up. Why?

- We continuously buy and sell. Everything is a matter of price.

- That is, they sold it because a good price was offered?

- Yes.

- There is information on the market that "Safmar" is related to large agricultural enterprises - "Rusgrain Holding", "Rosagro". This is true?

- Not true. We credit them. These are the operating large enterprises that pay interest and the body of the loan. We have nothing to do with them.

- What plans for the development of luxury trading directions in addition to the project Gutseriev & Maximova?

- Fur business - it's just a toy. We built a fur farm, decided to sell fur. Do not export it. We earn $ 5 million. The dressing here in the Moscow region, here we sew, here we also sell. Business for 150 people, created in six months. A vivid example, how can you build a $ 1 million business in the center of Moscow. We are now making slippers with a brand name. We sew a lot of fur and leather (shows slippers). Very beautiful, inexpensive. We sell them in our stores. Now there are three of them - in Moscow, Sochi and St. Petersburg. They sell furs, sheepskin coats, mink coats. This is not worse than import.

- Do you come up with a design yourself?

- Yes, in some cases I am a designer myself. Even this shirt (showing the shirt that was on it) was made by himself. He graduated from the Dzhambul Technological Institute of Light and Food Industry, specializing in the technology of leather and fur. He worked as a loader, pumping machine, workshop master, production manager, chief engineer and general director of the sewing association. In Soviet times, in my subordination there were more than 30 factories. He cut himself well, sewed it with a hidden seam, and in a hem, stale and obmetic.

- At the beginning of our conversation you said that the office of "Safmar" will be on Taganka. Will Russneft also move?

- There will be "Safmar", here "Russneft". Russneft is only 10% of the group.

"And where will your office be?"

- I have many offices in different countries.

- But here, in Russneft, probably the main one?

- Why? Office is where I want. In the morning I go to the bank, if there is a board of directors. If the board of directors is in Inteco, I'm going there. If here - here I come.

- Do you have a board of directors every day?

- Yes. Somewhere 240 boards of directors for the year, today two held - the radio "East" and the radio "Chanson." Cafe "Karaoke-chanson" was opened. For two months, we received revenues of 3.5 million rubles, it is necessary that the revenue reached 5 million rubles. Then the cafe will be profitable. The cafe is open from 6 pm to 6 am. I think we need to open at 10 am and work almost around the clock. Let's see what happens. In "National" Alexander Rappoport opened two restaurants - "Beluga" and "Doctor Zhivago", restaurants always have queues, the occupancy of rooms has increased, for which many thanks to him. I myself ask you to write me down two weeks in advance.

- Cafe Karaoke-chanson is a one-time project?

"While we try." If you can earn at least $ 200,000 a year, why not open 10? After all, these are jobs, system cache, prestige, live concerts of stars, which influences the development of my radio station "Chanson".

Media business, the advent of the Internet and the torment of creativity

- Recently there was information that now you will make a movie.

- Yes, we created a film company. We will make films, I hope it will be interesting. I like modern young directors, modern films. I write something, scripts, small prose - stories.

- This is a feeling of life?

"This is nausea from life, it's hatred from everything that happens to us here, in reality."

- Do you plan to develop a media holding, buy radio stations?
- Now there is no sense. The Internet is killing everything.

- Are radios a profitable business?

"Very profitable." For example, the revenue of the radio "Dacha" for six months amounted to 224 million rubles., "Chanson" - 247 million rubles. For a year they in total earn 1 billion rubles. "Says Moscow" is developing, [Sergei] Dorenko raises the station with his journalism. Everything will die, there will be internet, partly television, partially radio, which will only be in cars and go online.

- What do you think, on what horizon will the Internet kill print media?

"I am absolutely convinced that when my generation, the generation of the Soviet Union, will die." We are used to newspapers, but my son, for example, does not. I have about 50,000 books - it's a huge library. I collected them from the age of 25 for children, I did not know that there would be Internet. Now I understand that there was a stupid, senseless undertaking. Try to get my son to take the book. I tell him: "Read a book." He told me: "Why?" - loads everything on the Internet. Neither a son nor a daughter can be forced. They will not watch TV or sit in the common room. You go in the apartment - they do not sit, lie on the bed with tablets. You pull them out to eat - they eat and drag themselves to the bedroom with them. Begin with this swear: "This is not a kitchen, it's a bedroom!" They are different.

Everything will die, and this too (pointing at the paper), the Internet will remain. I already gave the command to make reports electronically. Information to the board of directors of Binbank comes in electronic format. I'm the only one who asks for information on paper.
Remain the family, feelings - jealousy, love, hate, envy.
Wars will remain. The way of life changes, others become apartments. You go in the house to the youth, and everywhere there is glass, everything is different, uncomfortable. They do not like carpets, heavy curtains. I love the classics. So that there was some stucco, heavy curtains, a sofa. Winter in the street, dirt, went into the house - there is a big light, there is a carpet on the floor. It warms me.

The process of evolution is continuous. In 1980, I studied at the third year of the institute. Passed the exam on the computer. Then there was the computer "Iskra", on which the figures were twisted, it performed operations. A day later my father gave me a calculator Casio. I could not believe, brought to the institute, everyone was shocked. When I wanted to talk with my mother, I went to the meeting point, waited five hours. 15 years passed, I arrived in Jambul, I had a phone with an antenna. Remember those? I dialed London - the oldest son was studying there. Evolution always goes on. Today, nothing should surprise us.

- You write poetry, songs ...

- Yes, here the day before yesterday I sketched out the variant, until I finished:

In the furious rhythm of proclaimed truths
Sperlo breathing ill-fated problems,
My conscience is a lost critic,
I cave in, the emphasis is without knees.
Feelings hoe, I suffocate,
I multiply a week and a month for two,
Time I run a run for anger,
I am indulged in fear by fate.